On April 28, 2020, H.E. Ambassador Liu Xiaoming gave an exclusive interview on BBC's HARDtalk hosted by Stephen Sackur, where he shared the timeline of China's efforts to contain the spread of Covid-19 and gave an update on what China is doing to join the international cooperation in response to the pandemic. The full transcript is as follows.

Sackur: Ambassador Liu Xiaoming, welcome to Hardtalk.

Ambassador: Thank you. Good to be with you again.

Sackur: We are delighted to have you on our program in this difficult time. Let me start actually with a very simple direct question: Do you accept that Covid-19 has its origins in China?

Ambassador: It was first discovered in Wuhan, but I can't say it's originated from Wuhan. According to many reports including BBC, it can be anywhere. It can be found on aircraft carriers. It can even be found in the submarine. It is found in some countries which have very little connection with China and also can be found in groups of people who have never been to China. So we cannot say it's originated from China.

Sackur: I'm a little confused by that answer. Clearly, it is a new virus. It originated somewhere. It seems, according to all of the immunologists and virologists, they crossed from animals to humans. And there was a first case and then it spread. There is no doubt that the first case was in China. I'm wondering why you are telling me that it spread all over the world and people who caught it had never been to China. That is clear because it's become a pandemic. But the question that matters so much is: Where did it start?

Ambassador: I think this question is still up for scientists to decide. I read the report that the first case in China was reported on the 27th December by Dr. Zhang Jixian to Chinese local health authorities. But I also read reports that some of the cases were found to be much earlier than that. We read even the report by your newspapers yesterday that your scientists, medical advisers, even warned your government that there might be a virus unknown to us, much earlier, last year. So all I can say is that the first reported case in China was on 27th of December in Wuhan.

Sackur: I think there's no doubt experts believe the origin of the first outbreak, first examples of this Covid-19 virus to be found in human beings, came from Wuhan and the surrounding area in China. I just wonder whether you accept that it is very important that we understand exactly what happened at the beginning of this outbreak, that we understand frankly what mistakes and missteps were made, which allowed the first outbreak to become a global pandemic.

Ambassador: I think it is still debatable. I think we have to agree to disagree. I think it was first discovered in Wuhan, China, but I can't say it originated from Wuhan. Let me tell you the timeline of China's fight against this virus. It was first reported on the 27th of December by Dr. Zhang, and then Chinese health authorities and CDC notified the WHO four days later, on the 31st of December, in the shortest possible time, and then share this information with other countries. China also shared the discovery of the pathogen with the WHO in the shortest possible time, and also shared the information about the genetic sequence of the virus in the shortest possible time.

Sackur: Ambassador, let me just interrupt you on this question of timeline because you missed out one very important point. On December 30th, a doctor in Wuhan, Li Wenliang, used his chat group online to tell fellow doctors that there was a new and very worrying disease in Wuhan. He advised his colleagues that they must wear protective clothing to avoid this new infection. And just a couple of days later, he was summoned to the public security bureau. He was made to sign a letter in which he confessed to making false statements that had severely disturbed the social order. That was the beginning of an official cover-up, which continued through the month of January.

Ambassador: As I said earlier, now I understand why there's a so-called call for independent investigation. They try to find excuse for them to criticize China for cover-up. But the fact is that Li Wenliang was not the first one who discovered this virus. As I told you, it was Dr. Zhang Jixian, and she reported 3 days earlier than Li Wenliang to the health authorities. Then, the health authorities in Wuhan reported to the central government, and then four days later, that means one day after Li Wenliang spread the word, the Chinese authorities shared the information with the WHO and other countries. No cover-up at all.

Sackur: With respect, Mr. Ambassador, the information that was shared was actually extremely limited, because on January 14th, we now know this from leaks that have been given to the Washington Post and the Associated Press, we know that internally China's national health commission head, Mr. Ma Xiaowei, laid out a very grim assessment of what was happening. He said that the situation was severe. Complex, clustered cases suggest human to human transmission is happening, the memo said. The risk of transmission and spread is high, but in public, that was internal, but in public, the head of China's disease control emergency center, the very next day, said the risk of sustained human-to-human transmission is low, that it was preventable and controllable. So, I put it to you again, there is compelling evidence that China for weeks did not tell the truth.

Ambassador: You give me not enough time to answer your question. I haven't answered the question with regard to Li Wenliang. You talk about cover-up. That's not true. Dr. Zhang reported through a normal channel to health authorities, but Li spread this word among his friends. In any country when you have something like the virus which is dangerous to people's health, when there is something unknown, there might be a panic. So I think the police authority summoned Li to warn him not to do it. You can't say this is a cover-up, since we reported through the normal channel. But on this, we need to make sure that there should be no panic. Even today, in the UK, I think your government is fighting misinformation. Some people try to use this to create panic for their own gain.

I think Li's case is closed. After it's reported to the central authorities, the government sent investigation team down to Wuhan and find out that Li did the right thing and the police reprimand has been revoked. And Li was made a martyr and given the highest honor for his contribution.

Sackur: Dr. Li was in deed regarded by the Chinese people as a hero when he died.

Ambassador: Not only by the Chinese people, but also regarded by the Chinese government. You cannot separate.

Sackur: With respect, I think the people of China are very aware, and I come back to it, that the Chinese government wasn't straight with them, nor with the outside world. Just tell me, if you can one more time, why on January 14 the national health commission document -- that was an internal document -- was labeled not to be spread on the internet, not to be publicly disclosed, in which they said that there was evidence of human-to-human transmission, clustered cases, severe and complex problem?

Ambassador: I think all your information is coming from Washington Post. I think you depend too much on American media. I really hope you will depend on the WHO for information. We share all the information with the WHO. I saw your interview with Mr. David Nabarro, and I think China has been straightforward, transparent, and swift in terms of sharing information with the WHO. Of course, inside China, we have to take cautious measures. We have to take strict measures to fight this virus. It is still unknown then. So people did not know what will happen, what this virus was about. But on the one hand, we share our knowledge, our understanding, with the WHO, with the other countries.

Sackur: But Ambassador, with all respect, your problem is -- you're a very senior diplomat and you know this is a problem -- that many people around the world simply don't believe the Chinese version of events. Donald Trump, only a few hours ago, said that he is not happy at all with China's stance. They could have stopped the virus at the source, he said, we are undertaking a thorough investigation. And the Vice President Mike Pence has listed a whole host of reasons why the United States believes that China was not straight with the world and is therefore culpable for the fact this pandemic is now causing so much death and so much economic damage right around the world. You have, as China, a massive problem now.

Ambassador: I don't think so. When you say that China has a massive problem, I think you're talking more about the Western world. Since the outbreak, China has had very strong cooperation with the WHO and with many other countries. We sent technical assistance and experts to and provide medical supplies for more than 150 countries. All of them spoke highly of Chinese efforts. So I can't say the United States represents the world. And even in the Western world, we've been receiving appreciation from the countries like United Kingdom, from France, from Germany.

You quote President Trump. Let me also quote his comments about China. On 24th of January, that was almost one month after we discovered this virus. He said, United States greatly appreciates China's efforts and transparency. Six days later and he said, they are working very hard, and we are working very closely with China. In early February, he said, President Xi is doing a great job, he handles it well

Sackur: Things have changed a great deal since the end of January. You say, look at what we've done to deliver medical assistance and equipment around the world. What many people see is China running a campaign of disinformation and propaganda around the world in recent weeks. You say, we have a great relationship with France. The French just called in your counterpart, the Chinese Ambassador in France, accusing him of spreading disinformation because the Embassy website in Paris is claiming that old people in care homes in France are being abandoned to suffer and die alone. That's a colleague of yours. Another colleague of yours in the Foreign Ministry use social media to promote the conspiracy theory that the US military has smuggled coronavirus into China. Why is your country running this disinformation campaign?

Ambassador: I think you'll pick a wrong target. It's not China who started this campaign of disinformation. If you could compare China's statements and comments by Chinese leaders, Chinese diplomats, Chinese Ambassadors, with their American counterpart, you will know who is spreading disinformation.

Sackur: Do you agree with Zhao Lijian, the Foreign Ministry Spokesman who did put up the link suggesting that the US military has smuggled coronavirus into China? Is that something that you also believe?

Ambassador: I think what you're saying is that Mr. Zhao retweeted some media report. I do not know why you focus on some comments by individuals in China but miss the disinformation by senior officials, even the national leaders, of the United States who started this campaign of disinformation, especially by the top diplomat, the secretary of state? When it comes to China, there's not any good word about China. And China is really regarded as an evil, not as a country which has been lending a helping hand to America in the fight against this virus. I do not quite understand.

Sackur: In your view, Ambassador, how deep is the crisis with the United States right now, that has been sparked by all of the accusations that have arisen from the coronavirus? How deep is the diplomatic crisis?

Ambassador: We certainly want to have good relations with the United States. I've been posted twice in Washington, DC. I always believe that China and the United States will gain from cooperation and lose from confrontation. And we have every reason to have a good relationship with the United States. But it has to be based on mutual trust, coordination and non-confrontation. But you need two to tango.

Since the outbreak, President Xi and President Trump have kept very close contact. They had two telephone conversations and compared notes, just as President Xi had two telephone conversations with Prime Minister Johnson. We want to build international response to this virus.

I just want to let Americans know that China is not an enemy of the United States. It's the virus that is the enemy of the United States. They need to find the right target.

Sackur: It's a very important message you're sending. Maybe China could consider some gestures that would improve relations with not just the United States but many other countries, including Australia and the UK who've made the same point to your government.

One, will you now categorically guarantee to close down the so-called "wet markets", that there will no longer be the sale of these live wild animals in the food markets that are known as the "wet markets"? Is that now something that has been banned, not just short term, but absolutely banned forever in China?

Ambassador: First, on your first point about "many countries", I cannot agree with you that China has a problem with many countries. I would say we have more friends than opponents or enemies. A few Western countries do not represent the world. I think China enjoy good relationships. And I think we are building international response. As President Xi said, solidarity and cooperation are the most powerful weapons to fight the pandemic. I will come back to the "wet market".

Sackur: Ambassador, we are short of time. I just need specific answer on the "wet markets". Are they right now closed for good, yes or no?

Ambassador: There's no such a thing as "wet market". This is a Western, a foreign, notion to many Chinese. We do have fresh food markets where fresh vegetables, fresh seafood, fish, are sold, and some live poultry. I think you are talking about the so-called illegal market for selling wildlife. That has been totally banned. The law has been passed and it will be banned permanently. It's illegal……

Sackur: That is therefore a recognition -- I just want to be clear -- a recognition on your government's part that the dangers of those markets, where live wild animals were sold alongside other food stuff, they were dangers that did cause the spread coronavirus from animals to humans.

Ambassdor: I agree with that. Finally, we have a few points to agree on. I'm very pleased with that. That's why this market, we're talking about illegal wildlife market, is totally banned. It's illegal to hunt, to trade, to eat wild animals.

Sackur: So people watching this will only wish that you had made that ban real before coronavirus spread and cause such terrible damage around the world. Are you in any way prepared to say sorry for what has happened?

Ambassador: So you come to your the first point again. You can't blame China for coronavirus. That's the problem of this argument. It was found in China. It was found in many other places that have no connection with China at all. So you can't point your fingers at China for the outbreak, and we have done our best.

China is a victim of the coronavirus, but China is not a source of this problem. China is not the producer of this epidemic, and that is something we have to come clean about.

Sackur: China is seen, for example, by leading politicians in this country, like the Chairman of the Parliamentary Foreign Affairs Select Committee, as very much the cause. He's talked about a soviet style system, a toxic system, inside your government, inside your regime, which he says has been responsible not just for betraying the Chinese people and their health or wellbeing, but betraying the wider world as well. And there are now calls in the United Kingdom, and also calls in the United States and other countries, for a disengagement from close economic ties with China. In Britain, it's of course centered on Huawei, your telephones giant's activities in the 5G sector. People say that should no longer be tolerated in the United Kingdom. As the Ambassador in the UK, are you worried that there is going to be now an economic disengagement?

Ambassador: Yes and no. I think you talk about this person as a very senior politician, but I don't think this view represents the official position of the UK government.

I think the UK government under Prime Minister Johnson is still committed to stronger partnership with China. In his two telephone conversations with President Xi, he reaffirmed UK's commitment to building a Golden Era with China. And we do have very good cooperation with the UK side throughout this outbreak, in addition to intensive communication. I've been here for 10 years as a Chinese Ambassador. I have never seen that our top leaders have such an intensive communications between them.

And also at the ministerial level, we have our State Counselor and Foreign Minister Wang Yi having telephone conversation with Secretary Raab, and Yang Jiechi, Director of the Office of the Central Commission for Foreign Affairs, having close contact with the Sir Mark Sedwill. Here in London, I have very close contact with the government secretaries, including Secretaries Mat Hancock and Alok Sharma, and Foreign Secretary Raab. We have a very strong, robust relationship.

And you quote those people using Soviet example. I think this is a totally Cold War mentality. We are living in the third decade of the 21st century, but those people still live in the old days when they were fighting cold war. China is not former Soviet Union. I think China and the UK are united by common interests rather than divided by our differences. So I'm very confident about this relationship.

Sackur: All right, Ambassador, we have to end there. But I do thank you very much indeed for joining me on Hardtalk at this difficult time. Liu Xiaoming, thank you very much indeed.

Ambassador: My pleasure.